Free football tickets not the same as ‘corruption’ of previous government says Trade Secretary

Business Speaking to us from the Labour party conference in Liverpool is Business and Trade Secretary Jonathan Reynolds.

Cathy Newman: This row over freebies, those leaks coming out of Downing Street. After just 80 days, is this a pretty dysfunctional government?

Jonathan Reynolds: No, it is not. And what we are trying to get across at conference is that the change that we were voted on to deliver has begun. Whether that is building new homes, getting on with putting in a real living wage, whether it is lifting the ban on onshore wind. We are delivering upon that agenda and want to point people towards the better future. Of course, you always get bits of information coming out of government, particularly when you’re running up to something like a budget. But what we are doing is getting on with that job and the only test of success or failure of this government will be how we deliver it at the end of this term.

Cathy Newman: You talk about change, but a lot of voters might look at what’s happening with the row over freebies and sleaze and think it sounds quite familiar with the last government. Now Keir Starmer and his senior ministers have said they won’t take free clothes anymore. Shouldn’t that also apply to hospitality, ministers should pay for their own hospitality?

Jonathan Reynolds: First of all, on the issue around what gifts or invites people get, we have some very clear rules on transparency. If people are asked to go to something in a work capacity as a government minister, or as a shadow government minister, which always happens, as long as they declare it, I think that is the right thing to do.

Cathy Newman: It’s not work, though, is it, it’s leisure. Keir Starmer accepting tickets to football or other events worth tens of thousands of pounds, and there you have the government pledging to introduce a football regulator, there’s a clear conflict of interest there, potentially, isn’t there?

Jonathan Reynolds: No, I don’t think there is, actually. I think, if you are, first of all, the prime minister going along to see the team you support, you can’t really walk through the turnstiles. I have no problem whatsoever with that. The fact that we are still proceeding with something which is contentious in some quarters around regulation of an industry, that kind of proves the point that there is no conflict because we’re proceeding with that legislation. And just on your ask about…

Cathy Newman: He’s accepted the freebie from the club that has a real stake in this decision on the regulator.

Jonathan Reynolds: That’s why the transparency that’s there is absolutely right. And look, he’s going because he supports that football team. There’s no other agenda there, it’s well known that that is something that’s a big part of his life, something he enjoys. I actually want the prime minister to have, whoever that prime minister is, a little bit of something in their life which is special to them.

Cathy Newman: But he can pay for it himself. You say he can’t go through the turnstiles, but you took free tickets for Sheffield Wednesday and an FA Cup final. You don’t have the security problem that your leader has. So what’s your excuse?

Jonathan Reynolds: You get invited to loads of things. Those are in the main, going to see my own club, Sunderland. If I’m in an area somewhere, I can catch the club. It’s not always that enjoyable, but that is important to me.

Cathy Newman: You earn something like £160,000, can’t you pay for it yourself?

Jonathan Reynolds: These are not when I was a cabinet minister. Just to be absolutely clear about that.

Cathy Newman: So now would you refuse those tickets?

Jonathan Reynolds: If I’m invited to something, I would declare it in exactly the way the rules dictate. But can I just ask about your point…

Cathy Newman: But why not dig into your own pocket?

Jonathan Reynolds: Because if you’re invited in that capacity you’re being offered something you can’t buy, can you? If you’re invited to, for instance, be at the directors’ box in Arsenal, but you can’t just have that.

Cathy Newman: But then you’re corruptible then, aren’t you?

Jonathan Reynolds: No, I don’t think so. I think that’s why the transparency rules are as they are. And look, ministers, people in public life, have always been invited to things. You say no to the vast majority where you are invited. But can I just come back to your point about change, because I think, the prime minister going to see Arsenal, declaring that in the proper way, is in no way the same thing as the kind of corruption we saw with the last government around Covid contracts where donors were getting things other people got…

Cathy Newman: Different order of sleaze?

Jonathan Reynolds: No, I think that is a completely different thing. I think to kind of conflate the two things would be dangerous. We saw something there which is totally unacceptable. This is all transparent, a personal interest in a sporting event, that’s fine.

Cathy Newman: It may be transparent. But look, you faced allegations of conflict of interest when you and your wife went to Glastonbury at the invitation of Google. And then just after that, you abandon the plan to tax the digital giants.

Jonathan Reynolds: That’s really not true. I’m really pleased you raised that, because that is not true. First of all, I’m not in charge of tax policy. And the clarification that that story was based on was the fact that the digital services tax was a temporary measure by the last government that will exist until the minimum global corporation standard policy, which we support, is in place. All that happened was we clarified what our existing policy was. There was not a change and things written…

Cathy Newman: Was it a mistake in hindsight to take those tickets?

Jonathan Reynolds: No, I think that the creative industries are a massive part of the economy, it’s obviously a nice thing to go to, I’ve been to Glastonbury once every 22 years. I don’t think that’s somehow some inappropriate influence.

Cathy Newman: Would you pay for yourself from now on?

Jonathan Reynolds: I don’t think anyone who goes to an event, as long as they declare that openly, fairly, transparently, I have no problem with that.